Comments on: The VP Debate http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/ Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:12:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Jeff Culbreath http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3698 Jeff Culbreath Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:06:50 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3698 Dear Anna, thanks for reconsidering. It's a privilege to have you as a reader. I look forward to your return after the election. Dear Anna, thanks for reconsidering. It’s a privilege to have you as a reader. I look forward to your return after the election.

]]> By: annabenedetti http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3697 annabenedetti Sun, 05 Oct 2008 02:07:34 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3697 Jeff, thank you for your kind words, which are entirely undeserved. I spoke too hastily. I can't stay away--I would miss coming here too much. Yours is a thinking blog, and I love that. But to help me think more and talk less, I'm putting myself in read-only mode ... until after the election. :) Jeff, thank you for your kind words, which are entirely undeserved. I spoke too hastily. I can’t stay away–I would miss coming here too much. Yours is a thinking blog, and I love that. But to help me think more and talk less, I’m putting myself in read-only mode … until after the election. :)

]]> By: Jeff Culbreath http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3696 Jeff Culbreath Sun, 05 Oct 2008 00:12:50 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3696 Zippy, I still hope that elections aren't *primarily* about their effects on voters, but that element does loom increasingly large. You're certainly right to emphasize the problem. In Sarah Palin's case (and many others no doubt), it is also about the effects on politicians, to the point where we may not even have a system that is <em>capable</em> of delivering uncorrupted leadership. Zippy, I still hope that elections aren’t *primarily* about their effects on voters, but that element does loom increasingly large. You’re certainly right to emphasize the problem. In Sarah Palin’s case (and many others no doubt), it is also about the effects on politicians, to the point where we may not even have a system that is capable of delivering uncorrupted leadership.

]]> By: asimplesinner http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3692 asimplesinner Sat, 04 Oct 2008 17:34:53 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3692 Sadly I can't say I am half as enthusiastic about a McCain presidency as I am loathing the idea of an Obama presidency... There is still time... But... Sadly I can’t say I am half as enthusiastic about a McCain presidency as I am loathing the idea of an Obama presidency…

There is still time… But…

]]> By: Zippy http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3691 Zippy Sat, 04 Oct 2008 14:24:04 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3691 <i>There is something about modern politics that corrupts the eye and blinds us to the humanity of the other side.</i> Indeed. The voting liturgy is primarily 'about' its effects on the congregations. Whatever folks may think of my more particular arguments, I hope more come to realize that elections are more - far, far more - about what they do to the voters than they are about deciding outcomes. There is something about modern politics that corrupts the eye and blinds us to the humanity of the other side.

Indeed. The voting liturgy is primarily ‘about’ its effects on the congregations. Whatever folks may think of my more particular arguments, I hope more come to realize that elections are more – far, far more – about what they do to the voters than they are about deciding outcomes.

]]> By: Jeff Culbreath http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3690 Jeff Culbreath Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:36:25 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3690 Anna: Joe Biden does not get a kinder eye from me than Sarah Palin. You know that very well. The only time I have ever remarked on Biden's principles is when I called him an "unprincipled snake". But the fact remains that he is <em>campaigning</em> on principles while McCain and Palin, whatever their personal merits, are running an incoherent campaign of image, identity, and personality. Politically, Biden and the Democrats are not even on my radar screen. I have nothing to say about the Democrats other than to remark on their personalities; their ideas and policies are beyond the pale. I'm not disappointed in Joe Biden: he's not on my side and never has been on my side. The Democrats haven't betrayed us, Anna - the GOP has betrayed us. The Republicans have been my political home for 24 years. Our party used to be about ideas, principles, and values: now it is about power and image and little else. I'm not going to reward that betrayal with a vote or support of any kind. I wish you agreed with me, but I won't hold it against you if you don't. Leaving the GOP reservation has its benefits, though. I can give credit where credit is due - even if that credit goes to the likes of Joe Biden - without worrying about the Tribe coming down on me like a ton of bricks. There is something about modern politics that corrupts the eye and blinds us to the humanity of the other side. While I have no use for Biden's ideas or even his character, he is not without personal qualities, and in the midst of all the Palin adulation I thought it ought to be pointed out. I think even Sarah Palin would agree. <em>"It’s time for me to say goodbye, Jeff." </em> Anna, I'm sorry to see you go. You were my most prized reader and commenter. God keep you. Anna:

Joe Biden does not get a kinder eye from me than Sarah Palin. You know that very well. The only time I have ever remarked on Biden’s principles is when I called him an “unprincipled snake”. But the fact remains that he is campaigning on principles while McCain and Palin, whatever their personal merits, are running an incoherent campaign of image, identity, and personality.

Politically, Biden and the Democrats are not even on my radar screen. I have nothing to say about the Democrats other than to remark on their personalities; their ideas and policies are beyond the pale. I’m not disappointed in Joe Biden: he’s not on my side and never has been on my side.

The Democrats haven’t betrayed us, Anna – the GOP has betrayed us. The Republicans have been my political home for 24 years. Our party used to be about ideas, principles, and values: now it is about power and image and little else. I’m not going to reward that betrayal with a vote or support of any kind. I wish you agreed with me, but I won’t hold it against you if you don’t.

Leaving the GOP reservation has its benefits, though. I can give credit where credit is due – even if that credit goes to the likes of Joe Biden – without worrying about the Tribe coming down on me like a ton of bricks. There is something about modern politics that corrupts the eye and blinds us to the humanity of the other side. While I have no use for Biden’s ideas or even his character, he is not without personal qualities, and in the midst of all the Palin adulation I thought it ought to be pointed out. I think even Sarah Palin would agree.

“It’s time for me to say goodbye, Jeff.”

Anna, I’m sorry to see you go. You were my most prized reader and commenter. God keep you.

]]> By: annabenedetti http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3689 annabenedetti Sat, 04 Oct 2008 04:53:41 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3689 You hold that Governor Palin either deliberately, ingnorantly, or indifferently distorted the truth, but you hold out no chance that she may have <I>inexpertly</I> distorted the truth, such as misstating the troop numbers by 6,000. It's amazing to me that Joe Biden gets a kinder eye from you than does Sarah Palin. It's time for me to say goodbye, Jeff. You have a wonderful Catholic blog here, and I wish you and your family every blessing as you make the big decisions of which you've spoken recently. You hold that Governor Palin either deliberately, ingnorantly, or indifferently distorted the truth, but you hold out no chance that she may have inexpertly distorted the truth, such as misstating the troop numbers by 6,000. It’s amazing to me that Joe Biden gets a kinder eye from you than does Sarah Palin.

It’s time for me to say goodbye, Jeff. You have a wonderful Catholic blog here, and I wish you and your family every blessing as you make the big decisions of which you’ve spoken recently.

]]> By: Jeff Culbreath http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3688 Jeff Culbreath Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:40:44 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3688 No time to reply in detail, but this <a href="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html" rel="nofollow">"fact check" page</a> indicts both candidates pretty thoroughly. The alternative to holding that Palin <em>deliberately</em> distorted the truth is holding that Palin <em>ignorantly</em> distorted the truth. Governor Palin is a bright lady and ignorance is not a plausible argument. Indifference seems to be a kinder explanation, as she obviously received her talking points from others and perhaps did not take the time to check them out. But it's a fine line between indifference and a positive willingness to deceive for political purposes. I doubt that Palin is unaware - at this point - of the readiness of her handlers to practice deceit. No time to reply in detail, but this “fact check” page indicts both candidates pretty thoroughly. The alternative to holding that Palin deliberately distorted the truth is holding that Palin ignorantly distorted the truth. Governor Palin is a bright lady and ignorance is not a plausible argument. Indifference seems to be a kinder explanation, as she obviously received her talking points from others and perhaps did not take the time to check them out. But it’s a fine line between indifference and a positive willingness to deceive for political purposes. I doubt that Palin is unaware – at this point – of the readiness of her handlers to practice deceit.

]]> By: annabenedetti http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3687 annabenedetti Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:41:35 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3687 <I>Both of them lied or deliberately distorted the truth.</I> I would be interested in seeing an example of Governor Palin's deliberate distortion of the truth. Both of them lied or deliberately distorted the truth.

I would be interested in seeing an example of Governor Palin’s deliberate distortion of the truth.

]]> By: Substantial Charm And Good Looks | Steve Skojec http://culbreath.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/the-vp-debate/#comment-3686 Substantial Charm And Good Looks | Steve Skojec Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:21:06 +0000 http://culbreath.wordpress.com/?p=859#comment-3686 [...] Jeff Culbreath on the debate: Sarah Palin passed the test, but did she rescue a faltering campaign? I don’t think so. Unfortunately it is the Obama-Biden ticket that is campaigning on ideas and policies (bad ones), and the McCain-Palin ticket that is campaigning on image and identity. I think even the average American voter, who isn’t too bright, can see the difference between candidates who really want to change things, and candidates who really just want a room in the White House. Their principles are wrong, but at least Obama and Biden are running on principles. McCain-Palin is running on little more than Governor Palin’s substantial charm and good looks, which doesn’t hurt, but isn’t nearly enough. Judging by tonight’s debate, the Republican ticket’s most comprehensible ideas are support for same-sex civil unions, increased federal involvement in education, and expansion of our foreign wars. So far as this campaign is concerned, Governor Palin’s pro-life principles amount to nothing more than Mario Cuomo’s “I’m personally opposed, but …”. [...] [...] Jeff Culbreath on the debate: Sarah Palin passed the test, but did she rescue a faltering campaign? I don’t think so. Unfortunately it is the Obama-Biden ticket that is campaigning on ideas and policies (bad ones), and the McCain-Palin ticket that is campaigning on image and identity. I think even the average American voter, who isn’t too bright, can see the difference between candidates who really want to change things, and candidates who really just want a room in the White House. Their principles are wrong, but at least Obama and Biden are running on principles. McCain-Palin is running on little more than Governor Palin’s substantial charm and good looks, which doesn’t hurt, but isn’t nearly enough. Judging by tonight’s debate, the Republican ticket’s most comprehensible ideas are support for same-sex civil unions, increased federal involvement in education, and expansion of our foreign wars. So far as this campaign is concerned, Governor Palin’s pro-life principles amount to nothing more than Mario Cuomo’s “I’m personally opposed, but …”. [...]

]]>